Every time you write code that requires Chrome or CEF or Electron, just remember: you are giving Google control over you and your users.
You are letting them dictate what you can and cannot do. You are letting them view your user's potentially private activities (URLs are always sent to Google without Debian's patch set).
You are becoming a part of their toxic culture, their neocapitalism.
@sorin Chromium Embedded Framework. Spotify and Slack are the two biggest Linux apps I can think of that use it.
@djoerd @awilfox @sorin This annoys me to no end! They did have something like that for a while some years ago, but then stopped. Electron is increasingly popular, and that's great for Linux because we get apps we never would've gotten otherwise. But why doesn't Mozilla make an alternative? They have to see the potential! Instead they make screenshot tools and the millionth way to send files over the internet...
> URLs are always sent to Google without Debian's patch set
does this mean what I suspect it does?! o_o
@mdfrg there's two ways I can go here
The first is: Yes you would, they'd just be written in a better framework that is not controlled, owned by, and monetised by Google
The other is: Then maybe those apps aren't worth using.
That sounds like either Samba (proprietary protocol even if the implementation is open source), or NFS which is complex as all hell to set up in a small business.
Unfortunately file sharing has never really gotten attention by people who care about networking, security, and good UX.
Apple's AFP was almost good and had a BSD licensed version but they got rid of it.
@awilfox @troubleMoney @vertigo
I really really hope he meant something like nextcloud. Cause if not, that's the reason people call us nerds and don't want to hear us. Try to explain how to download file from your FTP server to your mom's female friend vs 'I send you this on facebook'. No need to get angry folks, it's how the world is.
@troubleMoney @awilfox @vertigo
My use case is a collaboration project I work with non tech people that we do in a spare time not in office. We use Slack to communicate and share files. It's vastly integrated (google driver, trello etc) and provides nice UX and it's dumb easy to use. Now try to convince those people that don't kniw what TLS or webdav is to configure an IRC client, install ZNC and learn how to use FTP
@troubleMoney @vertigo @mdfrg so yeah even if you have an office with dedicated IT staff, the only way you can hope to have SMB or NFS work properly in ways users can tolerate is with something like LDAP.
and let's not even start with the shift to remote work. then you need VPN to log in with LDAP/Kerb and use SMB/NFS, or worse, run everything public.
we don't have good solutions to these problems yet. and we need them. badly.
However, if you do, there's always Citadel BBS software. It offers a web-based UI as well as classical text-mode interface, live chat, supports file uploads/downloads, et. al. It's actually pretty neat.
But, again, I only need the ability to chat. I tend to send files over e-mail, and important information tends to get archived on wikis.
Your usecase may vary.
Some prefer the web interface, but some actually do prefer the SSH interface.
It's pretty awesome, actually. I do wish it were more popular though. Would love a console Mastodon interface that had more or less the look and feel of Citadel, for example.
You can convince the convinced as much as you want but (sad) truth is, as far as IM /chat apps are concerned is more a question of who uses what not what technology is more RAM efficientband superior. Besides, Slack is just different service than Irc, it's designed for different needs and workflow so you're comparing apples to oranges here.
However I don't really agree Slack and IRC are different use cases. Channels, some invite only, allowing users to talk to each other and PM. Slack adds file sharing like DCC but otherwise it's just plain old IRC reimplemented IMO.
@mdfrg @vertigo It doesn't do message sync unless you use ZNC which is more software to set up, and its client side so everyone has to set it up. I don't know of any message search beyond grep on ZNC logs (or find in page if you open in text editor).
It usually uses TLS these days. It can support TLS only, TLS and plaintext, or plaintext only.
@awilfox @amdt Chromium and Electron are two different things, the Debian patch is for chromium, not the underlying web rendering engine shared with Electron.
Electron apps don't send URLs to Google, you are either misguided or spreading FUD.
Actually, one of the most privacy respecting browsers, Brave (https://brave.com), is based on an Electron fork (Muon).
Brave uses Chromium with changes, which does remove Google tracking, in addition to replacing ads on pages with Brave ads. Cite: https://arstechnica.com/information-technology/2016/01/mozilla-co-founder-unveils-brave-a-web-browser-that-blocks-ads-by-default/
Muon is not a fork of Electron. It is a framework similar to Electron, but based on the Brave fork of Chromium instead of CEF.
I'll Wireshark Atom later today.
So is Electron, which adds nodejs integration to Blink to build apps.
About Muon (which I know pretty well), just read the Readme: "Muon is a fork of the Electron framework which is currently used in the Brave web browser."
And yes, maybe you should wireshark products *before* making claims...
@fabricedesre @amdt I have already wiresharked before, but will do it over to 1) have logs easily accessible, 2) see if anything has changed in what it hits / what protocols it uses (QUIC, SPDY, or just HTTP), 3) use the current version.
I don't see GAIA in Electron any more, so that's progress, but there's definitely more than Blink in Electron; Muon's readme clearly says it uses Chromium source with patches. Blink itself can't support Chrome extensions, for example.
"one of the most privacy respecting browsers" brave does browser-in-the-middle to replages ads with it own, without user's consent (opt out-baspfed), it's the opposite of privacy-respecting
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