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This Eliza is unavailable in your country @Elizafox

Freenode's programming language communities in particular are very bad.

#: "go fuck yourself, here's an uninformative manpage"
#++: "go fuck yourself, no, really just go fuck yourself, also here's a link to the isocpp documents"
: "just use twisted"
#<any functional language>: "I am better than you and I will make this known immediately"

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Bonus points if you get told to "google it" after you googled it

And I'm sorry but if you disagree that freenode's programming culture is toxic you are probably part of the problem.

Yes this is a logical fallacy, no I do not care.

@Elizafox I'd never even thought of asking on freenode for programming tips, although I don't do much advanced coding (only rough hacks to haul data out of 1990s era serial comms on systems)

Along with friends I used a channel on there before for chat on our EDM station, but unless there are extra features of IRC I've never used (quite possible) on top of any toxic culture it doesn't seem as useful for coding advice, compared to blogs/forums especially for sharing examples of code..

@Elizafox TBH there is already *way* better coding tutorials on Mastodon just clicking on your hashtags (even if a lot of them are in German, but my mind works in enough of a warped fashion to think "if I'm going to go to the trouble of trying to learn a thing in C or Linux, reading the instructions in German isn't even /that/ much more extra effort and then I could learn two things.."

@Elizafox This evaluation is a thing I've heard from multiple trusted sources. I've always avoided Freenode for anything that wasn't specifically recommended to me, and usually even then. The mod culture is... lacking.

@Elizafox I've found the regex one too be pretty good in helping provided you're starting from something that at least partially works; otherwise I end up rubber ducking it

@calvin They won't help you at all unless you've shown you've put effort into it, which sucks when you have no idea where to begin

@Elizafox yeah, I only went there when I had something that worked except in certain cases.

it's really 2 problems of poor getting-started kinds of docs (manuals are fine provided you know where to start from) & making the community care about new people in the first place. I hear Rust is good for that, but I can't verify that, nor do I know how they got that way.

maybe it's some primal desire to be top asshole? if you're purposefully wrong, it's easier to get results: bash.org/?152037

@Elizafox to add on the last remark, the kind of people who hang out on computer IRC channels (/me throws stones in a glass house) were never really at top of anything, so exerting power on the internet to be an asshole to people lower on the totem pole than them is how they get kicks? (this is likely applicable to other things)

@calvin @Elizafox I listen to multiple podcasts that, when they didn't know something, would intentionally get it wrong, because they knew their listeners would correct them...

@bhtooefr @calvin @Elizafox

this produces an interesting thought

what if we decent humans all just start fucking things up on purpose and act clueless SO THAT shitbags will step in and do the work for us

I mean, like, shitbags do this all the time! we might as well get some mileage out of their shitty asses

"Yes, yes. I totally see now! I am completely a, uh, 'luser', I think you said? Yes. You're right." *faint smile*

let 'em wonder if they're "really" proving smarts or getting used after

@calvin Elitism is a time-honoured geek tradition, held by those who are not expected to have social skills, due to being talented. As more programmers enter the world, this is slowly changing.