@Sargoth This reminds me of those arguments of "don't look at if we're turning a profit, look at if we're cash-flow positive"

@Sargoth The argument of "well 2% of people are making a living and therefore this is great" is like saying "well we're not even close to profitable but hey, we're not gushing tons of money, that's great innit?"

@Elizafox that's his point

it has always been way more profitable to get a job that to create things. if the goal is money maximization, then flipping burgs wins over making music 98% of the time

the amount people making a living off of making art is statistically insignificant. it becomes strange to hold this up as a benchmark for success

@Sargoth Benchmark for success, no.

But real people need to make a living, and the fact there is not enough patronage of the arts to go around is disturbing, when a lot of other support is given to more useless endeavours such as bureaucracy.

@Sargoth Basically my point is, only 2% of artists are considered worth enough of a damn on patreon to be successful, and the rest have to fight for scraps. This is ridiculous.

@Elizafox this doth suggest that the issue at hand is larger than this one crowdfunding platform, and that it would be to place undue burden upon it to expect it to change everything single-handedly

we might end up at a critique of capitalism before this morn is over, I reckon ^^

@Sargoth I will say this: Patreon is a for-profit company, funded by venture capitalists, who are profiting off the needy by acting as a convenience service, essentially as intermediaries.

I wish there were viable alternatives, though, except maybe paying people through PayPal directly (but fees...).

@Elizafox if only there was a secure, heavily encrypted digital currency which would enable people to transfer funds directly to each other, without fees or intermediaries

ach well

it'll be interesting to see how these next few days pan out. either they'll make some announcement that'll set things right(isch), or they'll double down on what you just said and affirm the need for competitors

@Sargoth Bitcoin isn't that currency. The fees are usurious nowadays if you want your transaction processed in a timely manner.

@Sargoth And yeah what I'm ultimately saying is... fuck capitalism tbh

@Elizafox I know

it cracks me up to see ardent supporters of BTC not understand how the patreon gaffe relates directly to their years on years of public espousing of it as a currency. or the fact that it utterly does not do what they claim it does

if ever there was a situation where BTC would be intuitively useful to a large swathe of people who feel a need to change their financial routines in an immediate future, this is it

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