Now is the summer of our disco tent is a user on mst3k.interlinked.me. You can follow them or interact with them if you have an account anywhere in the fediverse.
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I am fine with vegans. They have a right to exist.
I don't want to get into it but we have way more in common than you think.
Two things:
1) Where vegans imply that I don't have the right *not* to be vegan, you've crossed a line and I will block you.
2) I do not understand why vegans do not welcome good-faith debate on GENUINE environmental issues related to things like controlling the rabbit population in Australia (A MAN-MADE ECOLOGICAL DISASTER).
Vegans have never given me a satisfactory response to "what to do with all those cows and pigs after we release them and controlling ecological devastation" other than by using ad hominem attacks.
Real classy.
So... pretty much, I don't wanna debate with vegans anymore.
Not all vegans are like this. But it's not worth the trouble. A few bad apples spoiled the bunch.
@Elizafox Like, it's something they legitimately need to consider, because of the hundreds to thousands of species on this planet, we've domesticated only 25. The ones that are dangerous to us get killed off. The food animals we can't domesticate, we've hunted to extinction.
I will confess I don't expect vegans to have good answers for handling the man-made environmental aftermath of domesticated and semi-domesticated animals, and the ethics of releasing animals incapable of living in the wild.
I can't think of a good ethical way to deal with rabbits in Australia.
I don't know if there are good answers. 🤷
But I don't expect to be insulted for soliciting debate on this!
@Elizafox It is an exceptionally valid question... I would imagine some kind of transition... also it would have to come through some kind of revolution to bring about such a drastic change. There is the 'demand' part that could impact the over production of the animals but that is relatively slow way.
The other is likely or maybe involving transporting them to where the need is higher in less abundant places of the world, but that is all speculative
@marxistvegan Well, cows could be transported back to Europe from whence they came. I mean the aurochs is extinct in the wild but cows are derived from them. They could fill the niche, albeit imperfectly.
@Elizafox I would except the more local farming methods and really would rather fight the industrial production... I am reminded of Food Inc. and the contrast...I don't expect all people to become vegan... but stopping overproduction is a step
@Elizafox I have never met a vegan who's end game appeared to be releasing all of the currently living domesticated-for-food farm animals into the wild all at once...
— I think most of them would probably rather we eat less of them... and then bread less of them, allowing for a nice downward cycling demand shock.
@Elizafox This is a fucking serious problem to which, I am afraid, there is no easy solution. My personal opinion, which is basically an uneducated guess, is: we phase out animal breeding in "waves" so to reduce livestock count to sustainable/reasonable levels
@Elizafox Just a point, I don't think the vegan transition will be from one day to the next. The population of cows and pigs will decrease with the consumption. I'm false ?
By the way, I'm not vegan, trying to pass through meat but I don't think I'll able one day to eat without cheese or milk, I'll probably move to vegetarian, but for the moment, I'm not.
@Elizafox Not really the point in my opinion. Releasing hundreds or thousands of animals in wild could really affectate ecosystems. It isn't for their own survival but more for the balance of biologicals systems where they'll be reintroduced. For now, we might just decrease the population of these species and after think about their survival.
@Elizafox it's annoying as hell. But try to remember, 95% of the time someone tries to debate veganism it somehow turns in to, "lol I'll just slip pork in to your food, funny right?"
@Elizafox I hope it didn't sound like I was accusing you. I'm just telling you what I've experienced as a lifetime vegetarian. 95% of "debate" are people saying you'll turn gay not eating animals, 5% is meaningful debate, sadly :(
@Elizafox Some people can't survive on vegetable protein due to various medical conditions plus pet cats, so there will always be animals raised for food. As to the excess beyond that, they'd be an invasive foreign species if they were released and should not be.
FWIW, livestock is much more implicated in global warming than cars are, so...
I'm not vegan, but I kinda thought the idea was there'd be a small amount of livestock remaining at the last few operations, and they'd be purchased by vegan groups to shut each operation down one by one, and released into a sort of preserve, to interbreed freely towards a less animal-husbandry engineered state.
I never imagined it as so sudden that animals were being abandoned, but slow, where the meat-eating populace gets smaller and smaller over time.
Cats actually enjoy our company. Dogs might too. But they need meat in their diet.
Do we keep a tiny bit of meat farming around so we can feed them properly, or are we literally going to just all be shut-ins without companionship? (And make cats and/or dogs be lonely too.)
This, too, I assumed was handled as it is for humans in the 'vegan endgame' I thought kind of existed -- i.e., some form of lab meat (or processed fungi) is made ultracheap to produce and reasonably close to the original product, and the raw stuff can be processed into kibble/wet food for pets as well as varied forms for human consumption.
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@Elizafox Last time I asked a vegan that, I got told off for 'trolling'.
Real classy, that.