@AerdanX @Elizafox The only time I've heard of safe spaces as places where debate and dissent are silenced are from assholes _claiming_ liberals claim that, never from someone who actually talks about them seriously.

Helps to denormalise discrimination and do to them what they've done to us for so long:

make them squirm.

Make them feel uncomfortable and they'll shut up and stay closeted. It won't end their views, you can't outlaw thoughts.

But you can make it not okay.

And increasingly, that's happening, but we're not there yet.

I'm no believer in absolute tolerance.

Intolerance itself should be intolerable. I mean you can get into meta arguments but that's a slippery slope fallacy.

Don't tolerate others who don't tolerate others for who they are, not what they are.

I am sure a sociologist can put it better than I can.

@Elizafox "I can tolerate anything except the outgroup"? :>

@amrofnoc Discrimination against others should not come from their traits they were born with.

Discrimination exists in all societies to a degree. I discriminate against bigots. I discriminate against people who post child porn. I discriminate against child molesters. Most of society would agree with those.

I discriminate based on harmful actions.

Bigots can spew their views somewhere else but they can't be allowed to hurt others.

@Elizafox One's actions is the only criterion that matters. Characteristics that are functionally beyond one's control shouldn't be discriminated against.

@amrofnoc Exactly!

@Elizafox From this conversation I don't think we actually disagree on any matter of substance, even if we may disagree on some of the semantics of terms involved

@amrofnoc Yeah exactly.

I lack terminology for what I'm trying to say.

Sociology is useful for THAT at least!

@amrofnoc @Elizafox http://aariina.deviantart.com/art/Chronicles-of-the-Outlands-poster-279119717

To put it better from elsewhere in the thread:

Basically, everyone discriminates against something.

We discriminate against most criminals in society, especially those who harm others.

Likewise people who believe in the ostracism of others deserve discrimination.

They have the right to discriminate others but society has a right to discriminate against them too. Works both ways, you see.

It's like you can discriminate against someone who advocates abuse.

@Elizafox Ostracizing others is an interesting one, since that tends to stem from social power rather than structural power, which is the one that most seem to want to focus on.

@Elizafox The thing is :
Yes you can discriminate, no it’s not respectful.
(My basic rule being respect, if people are being too much disrespectful I’m showing them the door)

When you enter society, you enter a contract to /uphold/ the greater morals of society.

What I advocate for, and many others advocate for, is changing the rules to say "it is morally wrong to discriminate for certain traits such as being LGBTQ, and your only defense is that it is not illegal to espouse those views, but you are not immune from criticism."

I don't see it as a big deal. The social contract is a living unwritten document that exists with all of us.

Apologies for orphaning a lot of your comments. I HAD to fix that nasty typo to avoid out of context quoting later.

@Elizafox safe spaces apply to nazis and racists too

@kaniini Hey you know what they're allowed to have freedom of association.

As long as they don't start lynch mobs, leave 'em be. Healthier for the shitheads of society to have private outlets.

It shouldn't be socially acceptable (albeit maybe not prohibited as uncomfortable as that is for some) to do that in public.

If Nazis choose to march down the street they get to choose to be booed and have rotten fruit pelted at them.

@amrofnoc I hope I fixed it and I'm sorry if I orphaned this (no idea what thread it was attached to)